Google Analytics (Hidden)

Monday, August 27, 2012

How to deal with Legends in Revit

Edited due to remarks made by Forum users. Some pitfalls for the use of Assemblies added in light of honest comparison between the different options.

First of all:

AUTODESK, FIX IT ALREADY!!!! YOU CALL THIS A BIM AUTHORING SOFTWARE? I CAN'T EVEN PROPERLY DOCUMENT THE OBJECTS RESIDING IN MY MODEL, WHETHER IT'S WINDOWS, DOORS OR FREAKIN' TOILET SEATS. THE OOTB LEGEND TOOL IS AN ABSOLUTE TOTAL HEAP OF UTTERLY USELESS CRAP! 


And breathe...
But seriously: It's an insult to all of us working on real projects needing to do real documentation. I have been on Revit since version 5.1 and it has been useless as long as I can remember (don't even know if there were Legends on that version, but if there were: they sucked back then too).

Why are legends bad?
1. You can only have a few different views: plan view, front and back elevation. How about sections? How about 3D views?
2. No tagging, no way to extract data from the elements (THAT is the freaking purpose!!!)
3. NO connection to the elements actually used in the model. If an element is deleted, it will remain in the Legend. No way of counting elements.
See image 1.

Image1: Useless crap


So: useless crap it is... The question is: what should it be like then? There are a few options, listed in order of usability:

1. Phases

The easiest to set up, but also the hardest to manage and check for model compliance.

Image2: Adding Legend Phases

Image3: Creating Legend Views and setting component Phases

Image4: Creating a coordination schedule
- Create two extra Phases: Legend and Demo Legend. Place them before the regular Phases, see image 2.
- Duplicate a Plan View, set Phase to Legend and place your Legend components. Select all Legend components and set the options to Demolish in phase Demo Legend, see image 3.
- Create all Legend views you want and Tag away happily.
- Create a Door schedule with 3 columns: Family and Type and Count. In the Properties screen, Sorting tab, sort by Family and Type. Check off "Itemize every instance". You now have a overview of all types in the model. Now duplicate that schedule and set the Phase to "Legend". You can now compare both schedules side by side to see if all elements are accounted for see image 4.


Pro's:

- Total control over Legend views, tagging, and so on.
- No influence over the model, no need to hide things in regular model views
- It's possible to create schedules to check whether all types are accounted for in the schedule.

Con's:
- Lot of work to set up views.
- No way of distinguishing different instances, there's only a limited amount of parameters that can be used to sort the schedule.
- Needs working knowledge of Phasing
- Needs two schedules and the ability to check them side by side. This could get difficult in large models with lots of types.
- Needs extra "space" in the model to place the Legend components.
- Not very suited for Legend views of multiple components (for instance a room layout, windows with ornaments, window sills and such).





2. Design options

Image5: Adding Design Options

Image6: Adding elements to a Design Option

Image7: Setting up coordination schedule

Image8: Coordination schedule
A bit harder to set up, but has better ways of checking for Legend-Model consistency:

- Set a Design Option Set called "Legend". Add 2 Options: "Model" and "Legend". See image 5.
- Duplicate a Plan View and place all elements you want to create Legends view from, somewhere outside the model's extents. Due to the setup of the Design Options, they will not be visible in the "normal" model views. See image 6.
- Create all Legend views you want and Tag away happily.
- Create a Door schedule with 3 columns: Family and Type, Mark (or any other text instance parameter) and Count. In the Properties screen, Sorting tab, sort by Family and Type and then by Mark. Check off "Itemize every instance". You now have a overview of all types in the model, see image 7.
- Go to the Legend door, select it, fill out the Mark value as shown in image 8. All the "normal" doors have a blank value.

Image 7 shows us that there is one type in the model that does NOT have a Legend component... This is a fast and reliable way to check whether all TYPES have Legend components. It does not help with instance based deviations...

Pro's:
- Total control over Legend views, tagging, and so on.
- No influence over the model, no need to hide things in regular model views
- It's possible to create schedules to check whether all types are accounted for in the schedule.

Con's:
- Lot of work to set up views.
- No way of distinguishing different instances, there's only a limited amount of parameters that can be used to sort the schedule.
- Needs working knowledge of Design Options
- Needs extra "space" in the model to place the Legend components.
- Not very suited for Legend views of multiple components (for instance a room layout, windows with ornaments, window sills and such).

 













3. Assemblies

My new favourite, and very close to what the Legend feature should be:

Image9: Creating an Assembly
- Place your components in the Model. Select a component and choose "Create Assembly" from the contextual tab. Choose an appropriate naming strategy (I use the family + typename which can expand dramatically when you're creating Assemblies from multiple elements), see image 9.
Image10: Selecting Assembly Views
- Select the Assembly and choose "Create Views" from the contextual tab. Select which views you want, and if they should be placed on a sheet, see image 10. Tag away happily. 
- Select next item, repeat the steps above. IF your element matches an existing assembly, it will turn into the same one, see image 11. Best part: this is on instance level! So if you have different instance parameters, it will be a new Assembly. Only problem: when using a unique Mark value to differentiate between different elements of the same kind.
Image11: Duplicate Assemblies are recognised
- You can tag the Assembly in the model to refer to these Assembly views. Which solves the Mark problem...
- Create a Door schedule as shown in option 1 and 2. Add an extra field "Assembly Name" to check whether all components have been added to an Assembly.

Pro's:
- Legend Views with the click of a mouse button.
- Total control over Legend views, tagging, and so on. Crop Regions can be rotated to meet specific needs
- No influence over the model, no need to hide things in regular model views
- Simply add a column to your object schedules to check whether all types are accounted for in the schedule.
- Recognizes differences on an Instance Level.
- No extra "space" needed in the model to place Legend components
- Suited for Legend Views of multiple components.
- Easy to use workflow.
- (Shared) parameters can be added to assemblies to allow tagging and scheduling.

Con's:
- Instance parameter awareness can be a problem, however this is manageable by adding those parameters to the Assembly itself.
- There's no way to port parameter values from the objects inside an Assembly to the Assembly itself without using the API
- It would be nice to be able to create Embedded Schedules for Assemblies to have both the Assembly AND the underlying objects in one schedule.
- Most annoying one: you need to manually place all elements in an Assembly one by one. No way to batch-create an Assembly. No way to properly place an Assembly when it's (wall) hosted (try placing an Assembly door...)
- MAJOR BIGGIE: Assemblies do NOT update when changes are applied to instance parameters. WTF??? It recognises differences in instance parameters upon creation, but not when changing them? I thought Revit ALWAYS updated modelled stuff? What the hell kind of cad solution is this?
- Adding objects to an Assembly (for instance, adding a windowsill to a window) creates a new Assembly type. Which is in some ways logical, but also a shame. Verdict on this one is still out...
- Groups cannot be Assembled (is that the correct term?). I get this, I think, because Groups are in many ways similar to Assemblies. I can imagine that these two might collide, but it's not perfect.

Summary

Legends suck. They suck for text notes, they suck for diagrams, and they suck big time for building components. The first two options described here are at best mediocre workarounds with lots of pitfalls and tons of extra work.

Then there were Assemblies... And all was better.
Provided Autodesk fixes a few minor bugs, it is the documenting feature we have been waiting for, for a LONG LONG time.
As far as I'm concerned, Autodesk can delete the Legend tool all together. I will be sticking with Assemblies for Building components from now on (and Generic Annotations for anything else).

HOWEVER: when you're on big projects with lots and lots of types, this solution might not work for you. Because whenever an INSTANCE parameter changes, you'll need to update all Assembly instances in the project. Which sucks big time. It's doable on smaller projects, and it works well when you're changing type parameters. But not when changing INSTANCE parameters. And that is a shortcoming well worth noting. (off course, you could do a "select all instances" > change, but it's the principal of things)

O, I added my sample files to this thread on Revitforum.org.

Happy Reviting,
Mark Twain

101 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. Not a big deal to face anyone. I read this article and get the new facts of dealing with the new one. It's a good point of view mentioned there. https://swyftscripts.com/

      Delete
  2. So clear, I'm quite frustrated but I'm still waiting for a tool that accomplish with a similar function, so finally is a better way do not work with legends?

    ReplyDelete
  3. It is a lot of steps! but well done!

    ReplyDelete
  4. this post is really informative...Thanks Mark !!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Well, at least it's not like the software costs $5K a seat or anything...

    ReplyDelete
  6. Thanks, Mark for this post!! I have another question though... Have you been able to create assemblies inside a design option? Cause I've been trying to but have not succeed at it... Thanks!!

    ReplyDelete
  7. I'm a new user, and I cannot believe that it is impossible to tag a door in a legend, or get a simple door count...seriously WTF. The program itself is hard to use OOTB, and to learn, but to finally get to the documentation stage, and to find out that it cannot produce a window or door legend, that is linked to the project is completely and absolutely astonishing. On top of that the windows dragged on from the family editor, are not the same size as those in the job ( I don't know what ive don but they are completely different heights).....I could go on (where the roof rafter generation toolkit) my I'm in total shock BIM my ass.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I left Revit 5 years ago with version 2009 and this was one of the biggest issues. I am about to try to convince my office to move away from Archicad - but this is THE Major issue - that I have to overcome. I can't believe in 5 years that this has not been resolved - or has it in 2005? Is there any update on this?

    ReplyDelete
  9. Great post, learned a lot! Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
  10. But the Assemblies doesn't work for this?

    ReplyDelete
  11. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  12. You can use Dynamic Legend plugin by AGA-CAD. not perfect but works fine

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. where i can download this plug in? best regards

      Delete
  13. Hey there ! i come here for the fist time ! and i impressed with your writing and your blog


    โปรโมชั่นGclub ของทางทีมงานตอนนี้แจกฟรีโบนัส 50%
    เพียงแค่คุณสมัคร Gclub กับทางทีมงานของเราเพียงเท่านั้น
    ร่วมมาเป็นส่วนหนึ่งกับเว็บไซต์คาสิโนออนไลน์ของเราได้เลยค่ะ
    สมัครสล็อตออนไลน์ >>> goldenslot
    สนใจร่วมลงทุนกับเรา สมัครเอเย่น Gclub คลิ๊กได้เลย

    ReplyDelete
  14. Thanks for the info And I hope to read this good article again.

    เว็บไซต์คาสิโนออนไลน์ที่ได้คุณภาพอับดับ 1 ของประเทศ
    เป็นเว็บไซต์การพนันออนไลน์ที่มีคนมา สมัคร Gclub Royal1688
    และยังมีหวยให้คุณได้เล่น สมัครหวยออนไลน์ ได้เลย
    สมัครสมาชิกที่นี่ >>> Gclub Royal1688
    ร่วมลงทุนสมัครเอเย่นคาสิโนกับทีมงานของเราได้เลย

    ReplyDelete

  15. Read online Urdu Digests,Urdu Books,Novels,Magazines,Safarnama,Islamic Books,https://zubiweb.org/

    ReplyDelete
  16. Nice information, valuable and excellent design, as share good stuff with good ideas and concepts, lots of great information and inspiration, both of which I need, thanks to offer such a helpful information here.I would like to thank you for your nicely written post, its informative and your writing style encouraged me to read it till end.
    Sql server dba online training

    ReplyDelete

  17. Nuvigil smart drug is the trade name for Armodafinil smart drug and is the enantiopure compound of Modafinil. There are a number of health benefits that the use of Nuvigil smart drug has to offer to its users. So, you can buy Nuvigil online. The use of the smart drug is safe and has no health issues attached to its usage. In the year 2006, the FDA approved the use of generic Nuvigil smart drug to be used to treat a number of mental issues. Buy Nuvigil online as the use of Nuvigil smart drug has long effect when compared to other smart drugs. This is mainly because Armodafinil smart drug has a longer half-life than the other smart drugs. Therefore more and more people are depending on Nuvigil smart drug to carry on their daily routine smoothly.
    Buy Nuvigil online

    ReplyDelete
  18. Your blog was so informative for me.Recently I faced iTunes installation problem in my windows 10 system .Then i got solution through can't install itunes on windows 10 article.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I really enjoyed it. keep up the good work and all the very best of luck!
    Healthlynked For PC

    ReplyDelete

  20. Thanks for sharing this information article to us and keep sharing this info, One of the best Chatbot development services, which is the best AI based industry leading chatbot maker for your business to offer 24/7 help with live chatbot on website. Reach us or just give a call to us for chatbot development.
    Chatbot app development company
    Chatbot development company
    Chatbot development service
    Chatbot Development
    Chatbot developer
    Bot developer

    ReplyDelete
  21. Top Digital Marketing training in India with Customized Digital Marketing course for All. Classroom, Online and Bootcamp classes by Experienced Trainers. To know more please visit our website.
    https://onlineidealab.com/seo-course-in-bangalore/

    ReplyDelete
  22. Very interesting blog. Many blogs I see these days do not really provide anything that attracts others, but believe me the way you interact is literally awesome.You can also check my articles as well.

    Security Guard License
    Ontario Security License
    Security License Ontario
    Security License

    Thank you..

    ReplyDelete
  23. Good Post! it was so good to read and useful to improve my knowledge as an updated one, keep blogging. After seeing your article I want to say that also a well-written article with some very good information which is very useful for the readers....thanks for sharing it and do share more posts like this.
    Salesforce Training in Pune

    ReplyDelete
  24. Amazing Blog, thank you so much for sharing with us. Visit Ogen Infosystem for best Website Designing Company and SEO Services in affordable price.
    Web Designing Company in Delhi

    ReplyDelete
  25. Post is very good thanks for sharing its very amazing
    website: Vietnam package tours

    ReplyDelete
  26. it is really a great and helpful piece of info. I am glad that you shared this helpful information with us. Please keep us informed like this. Thank you for sharing.
    malaysian embassy singapore

    ReplyDelete
  27. I enjoyed over read your blog post. This was actually what i was looking for and i am glad to came here!
    Website: Imitation jewellery

    ReplyDelete
  28. Hi, I am the best top online casino web developer, I'm here to introduce myself. I am happy to stay here.
    vegus168 ฟรี เครดิต
    แทงบอลออนไลน์

    ReplyDelete
  29. Thanks for this valuable piece of information... Saved the day.
    Also sharing hands to help for DevOps Online Training

    ReplyDelete
  30. Very interesting to read this article.I would like to thank you for the efforts you had made for writing this awesome article. This article inspired me to read more. keep it up.
    Data Science Course In Hyderabad

    ReplyDelete
  31. Water bodies are the main source of transportation for international freight forwarding. Due to this, sea freight company in Delhi,
    visit
    Freight Forwarder in Vietnam
    Shipping Company In India

    ReplyDelete
  32. This is a really explainable very well and i got more information from your site.Very much useful for me to understand many concepts and helped me a lot.Best data science courses in hyerabad

    ReplyDelete
  33. Thanks for sharing information. Choosing computer accessories from leading IT store offer great discount and value for your money Computer Store Australia | All in One Pc Australia

    ReplyDelete
  34. keep up the good work. this is an Ossam post. This is to helpful, i have read here all post. i am impressed. thank you. this is our site please visit to know more information
    data science course in Hyderabad

    ReplyDelete
  35. Post is very good its amzazing post I love them thanks for sharing.
    visit here- कार्टून

    ReplyDelete
  36. Webocity is best website designing company in delhi , Best Website development company in Delhi, We Offer Best Digital Marketing services in Delhi.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Awesome blog. I enjoyed reading your articles. This is truly a great read for me. I have bookmarked it and I am looking forward to reading new articles. Keep up the good work!
    Visit here :- Seo Company In Gwalior

    ReplyDelete
  38. it is really a great and helpful piece of info. I am glad that you shared this helpful information with us. Please keep us informed like this. Thank you for sharing.
    Website: Dear Lottery

    ReplyDelete
  39. I am new here. I like your post very much. It is very usefull post for me.
    website: healthcare market research reports

    ReplyDelete
  40. I have been examinating out a few of your articles and i can claim pretty nice stuff. I will make sure to bookmark your site.
    online electronics shopping sites

    ReplyDelete
  41. Great post i must say and thanks for the information. Education is definitely a sticky subject. However, is still among the leading topics of our time. I appreciate your post and look forward to more.
    Data Science Course in Bangalore

    ReplyDelete
  42. I always like to read a quality content having accurate information regarding the subject and the same thing I found in this post.

    Website Development Company |

    ReplyDelete
  43. Great information, i was searching of this kind of information, thank you very much for sharing with us.

    Craigslist Posting Service for Car Dealers |

    ReplyDelete
  44. This is really amazing website that I have been found on google regarding website Blog Commenting sites. and I would like to thank admin who also given us to post the link on his side.

    Lubbock moving company |

    ReplyDelete
  45. This was something I was looking for, really helpful, and great work is done. Thank you so much for sharing such valuable information.

    Car Auction Software |

    ReplyDelete
  46. It’s really a cool and helpful piece of information. I am glad that you shared this useful information with us. Please keep us up to date like this. Thanks for sharing.

    Best CRM for Small Businesses |

    ReplyDelete
  47. I am really like it very much for the interesting info in this blog that to this website is providing the wonderful info in this blog that to utilize the great technology in this blog.

    Web Development Company in Gwalior |

    ReplyDelete
  48. Thanks for posting the best information and the blog is very informative.Data science course in Faridabad

    ReplyDelete
  49. A decent blog consistently concocts new and energizing data and keeping in mind that perusing I have feel that this blog is truly have each one of those quality that qualify a blog to be a one.
    data scientist course

    ReplyDelete
  50. Truly incredible blog found to be very impressive due to which the learners who ever go through it will try to explore themselves with the content to develop the skills to an extreme level. Eventually, thanking the blogger to come up with such an phenomenal content. Hope you arrive with the similar content in future as well.
    Digital Marketing training

    ReplyDelete

  51. I am always searching online for articles that can help me. There is obviously a lot to know about this. I think you made some good points in Features also. Keep working, great job !

    business analytics course

    ReplyDelete
  52. In online games, a Poker table is displayed in front of you on your computer screen. The best thing is that it is so easy that you wouldn't need to ask anyone how to play poker.
    How To Play Poker
    Play Poker Online In India
    Real Money Poker
    Poker Tournaments Online In India

    ReplyDelete
  53. i am glad to discover this page : i have to thank you for the time i spent on this especially great reading !! i really liked each part and also bookmarked you for new information on your site.
    data science courses in hyderabad

    ReplyDelete
  54. I want to leave a little comment to support and wish you the best of luck.we wish you the best of luck in all your blogging enedevors.
    best data science courses in hyderabad

    ReplyDelete
  55. I Want to leave a little comment to support and wish you the best of luck.we wish you the best of luck in all your blogging endeavors.
    cyber security course in bangalore

    ReplyDelete
  56. Thanks For Information.

    SASVBA
    offers 15+ best online learning modules designed to meet industry standards. We have a very pleasant and supportive environment. We focus on providing the best online / face-to-face learning experience in order to provide students with the best services to enhance our students' education. We also have a placement unit for 100% placement support.

    Python Training In Delhi
    Data Science Training Delhi
    Advance Excel Training In Delhi
    Power BI Course In Delhi
    See More: Sasvba

    ReplyDelete
  57. I am glad to discover this page. I have to thank you for the time I spent on this especially great reading !! I really liked each part and also bookmarked you for new information on your site.
    Data Science Training in Chennai

    ReplyDelete
  58. Very nice and interesting article. It's always great to read about people who make all these useful things for us. Thank you! short link generator

    ReplyDelete
  59. i am glad to discover this page : i have to thank you for the time i spent on this especially great reading !! i really liked each part and also bookmarked you for new information on your site.
    best data science courses in bangalore

    ReplyDelete
  60. I Want to leave a little comment to support and wish you the best of luck.we wish you the best of luck in all your blogging endeavors.
    data science course in bangalore with placement

    ReplyDelete

  61. Very awesome!!! When I searched for this I found this website at the top of all blogs in search engines.


    Best Digital Marketing Institute in Hyderabad

    ReplyDelete
  62. SASVBA is recognized as the best machine learning training in Delhi. Whether you are a project manager, college student, or IT student, Professionals are the best machine learning institute in Delhi, providing the best learning environment, experienced machine learning instructors, and flexible training programs for the entire module.

    Machine Learning course in Delhi

    ReplyDelete
  63. It is amazing and wonderful to visit your site. Thanks for sharing information; this is useful to us....

    MERN Stack course in Delhi

    ReplyDelete
  64. It is amazing and wonderful to visit your site. Thanks for sharing information; this is useful to us....

    artificial intelligence training in delhi

    ReplyDelete